Golden Sun Hacking Community
Hello Luna_blade 27 May 2014, 15:37:22 *
Show unread posts since last visit.
Show new replies to your posts.
Total time logged in: 2 days, 7 hours and 52 minutes.
News:
 
  Home   Forum   DC Wiki Help Search Profile My Messages Shop Calendar Members Downloads Logout  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Mark unread  |  Print  
Author Topic: Project Design  (Read 755 times)
Luna_blade and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.
Teawater
Mercury Clan

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 100
[increase]
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Giving you the juicer. *Hands out teawater.*
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 1464

Respect: +117
« on: 09 March 2014, 01:08:20 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

This topic is here to discuss how the project should be made.

Is it really worth it to make it a hack of GS1/GS2, or even GS3?

Who's actually interested in making it a PC fan game? (While using plenty of GS's in-game resources.)

What RPG Makers should be considered as a base? (Freeware open-sourced ones recommended.)

What coding languages are most preferred? (Java, C/C#/C++, VB6/VB.NET, etc.)
« Last Edit: 09 March 2014, 01:12:40 by Teawater » Logged

You won't find it in the guilts of yesterday.
You won't find it in the fears of tomorrow.
You'll find it in today, right now. The miracle is in the moment.
"Click here, you know you want to!"
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
charleysdrpepper@hotmail.com
Majora
Venus Clan

Regular Member
*

Coins: 10
[increase]
Send Money
Offline Offline

Posts: 90

Respect: +40
« Reply #1 on: 09 March 2014, 03:57:27 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

Whatever you do, avoid Java.
Logged
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Teawater
Mercury Clan

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 100
[increase]
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Giving you the juicer. *Hands out teawater.*
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 1464

Respect: +117
« Reply #2 on: 09 March 2014, 04:31:40 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

The worst kind of post: Telling you to do something without an explanation.

Well, maybe not the worst, but still...

Why? What's wrong with Java? What makes you think Java is useless?

I don't really know the advantages/disadvantages of the different languages, but I'm convinced there's some sort of trade-off. And there most definitely seems to be a group of people who seem strictly against java, while there are others that seem to not be against it... so.... What is really making people say "Stay away from it?" Does it have something to do with their inability to use coding tricks, or what?

In short, without an explanation, I'm not sure how to judge your post.
« Last Edit: 09 March 2014, 04:53:05 by Teawater » Logged

You won't find it in the guilts of yesterday.
You won't find it in the fears of tomorrow.
You'll find it in today, right now. The miracle is in the moment.
"Click here, you know you want to!"
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
charleysdrpepper@hotmail.com
Misery
Bad Luck

Great Member
***

Coins: 25
[increase]
Send Money
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Clan Position: Mercury Hack Leader
Posts: 623

Respect: +74
« Reply #3 on: 09 March 2014, 09:03:38 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

Is it really worth it to make it a hack of GS1/GS2, or even GS3?
Making a hack gives us a lot of things for free, but that might not mean much considering how restricted the average user is in editing those games.

Quote
Who's actually interested in making it a PC fan game? (While using plenty of GS's in-game resources.)
If by "resources" you mean graphics and music, that's a no. The reason that works with hacks is that we're not distributing them, with a PC game using those resources that would no longer be the case. If you meant code resources though, that can be replicated without being the exact same code, so that's not as much of an issue.

Quote
What coding languages are most preferred? (Java, C/C#/C++, VB6/VB.NET, etc.)
Personally I'm planning to use C with SDL for a game, but I think this is mostly a matter of taste. Meaning if this project ever becomes a thing, those affected (i.e. those who would work with code) will have to decide.

Oh, and hello again.
Logged
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Luna_blade
One of the makers of a GS prologue fanfic
Luna Clan

Regular Member
*

Coins: 2
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Unable to even keep up with all the posts
Posts: 203

Respect: +3
« Reply #4 on: 09 March 2014, 13:34:12 »
0

I'm very interested  in making a PC game for GS. However I don't have that much time as I'm busy with a lot of schoolwork.

Well I would'nt recommend VB.NET and especially not VB6. They're both laguages that focus on the making of programs, and not games and graphics.
You can however make a great GUI with it.

So, unless we want some kind of ASCI game, I think it would be unwise to use VB.
77.170.230.226

Agillity/Speed in most RPG games is better then Attack/Force/power.
Spoiler for Hiden:
That is only when Defence is a linear division fuction. Example: When you strike with two daggers  (one does 120 damage the other 100) and the def makes every damage divide by 50 it does not differ from when you strike with one big sword (dealing 220 damage). When the defence is linear substraction, you want the highest damage output as possible, to maintain a low percentage of damage loss to defence.
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
Teawater
Mercury Clan

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 100
[increase]
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Giving you the juicer. *Hands out teawater.*
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 1464

Respect: +117
« Reply #5 on: 09 March 2014, 17:25:32 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

@Misery:

By resources, I mean taking what we get from Golden Sun, and changing it to anything we may need. This can be graphics, music, etc.

Don't forget that Atrius has a whole set of GS images accessible via a BB code, and a few smileys as well. I don't see how reusing graphics and music would hurt compared to distributing the ROM, in this case. (As long as we're not making a profit, anyway.) And there are many websites that use images and have a copyright notice labeled as fair-use...

Atrius's prior plan before the Editor was to make a fan game maker, right? So I can't really see how he'd be "against it", if you know what I mean? If he was against it, he might as well tell people to stop linking to videos with those graphics and music.

Edit: Also, I don't think it would hinder the ability for Camelot to sell their game... I think it would actually, in fact, 'advertise' the game causing more people to likely buy it themselves, if you know what I mean.


@Luna_blade:
Eclipse Origins was created in VB6..., and I feel I have enough knowledge on VB.NET, to code graphics... (You just code in a Bitmap object and link it to an array. While also staying away from SetPixel, since it's extremely slow.) Also, with VB.NET, in Paint events, there are also features for drawing different shapes and lines as well... (e.Graphics) ; Don't be tricked and think the limitations of languages are more limited than they actually are, if you know what I mean. (I mean, it's usually worth doing your research to make sure.)


VisualBoyAdvance = C, C++ (From wikipedia)
DeSmuME = C++
RuneScape/plenty of other applet games = Java (Edit: Although, I believe RuneScape was switching to HTML5 at one point... not sure of the status on that.)
« Last Edit: 09 March 2014, 19:11:36 by Teawater » Logged

You won't find it in the guilts of yesterday.
You won't find it in the fears of tomorrow.
You'll find it in today, right now. The miracle is in the moment.
"Click here, you know you want to!"
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
charleysdrpepper@hotmail.com
Majora
Venus Clan

Regular Member
*

Coins: 10
[increase]
Send Money
Offline Offline

Posts: 90

Respect: +40
« Reply #6 on: 09 March 2014, 18:04:09 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

Dislike Java not because it's 'useless', as it is a very versatile platform with a wide variety of uses, but it's how it operates that gets me. 
Had performance problems with Java from the get-go, can be very finnicky.  Crashes randomly, causes all sorts of file conflicts, doesn't ever present errors it encounters in an easily-understood manner, causes for a lot of trial and error that can become a time liability very easily. 
Gets a little bloated and CPU intensive over time as well, depending on the eventual size of the program you're writing.  Always best to assume that the program will be large at some point, as you may very well end up expanding it to include more and more things over time. 
Just isn't very reliable at all, it's a deprecated and head-scratching platform, it's best to avoid it.

Would recommend something in HTML5 if you're thinking of a browser-based shindig, something easily picked-up and gone with.
Logged
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Teawater
Mercury Clan

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 100
[increase]
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Giving you the juicer. *Hands out teawater.*
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 1464

Respect: +117
« Reply #7 on: 09 March 2014, 18:17:10 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

Thank you for your feedback!

Hmm... Could any of that be related to developers coding problems? (Even if there's a type of error that is made which is common among developers.) I think it might be worth me looking that up.

I understand bloated/RAM usage: I'm guessing one has to find a proper way of using the Garbage Collector if there is a way to actually use it. To me, it's like Java was designed to make Garbage Collection mostly automatic, which is sad. As for CPU intensive: As long as you are animating graphics or playing audio, I think all programs could use up a bit of CPU. Soo, hmm... We might need to compare programs on that one. ; I find most problems to be fixable via the developer's code, but there may be plenty of cases where it could be the programming language as well, I guess?

HTML5 is an option, but isn't it relatively new and only works with Chrome at the moment? (If I remember what I read on RuneScape a long time ago.)

But yeah, since I think RuneScape was moving to HTML5 at one point (Not sure of the status on that.)... I do plan to take the time to look into HTML5. ; If it happens to be easier to use, I'll be more likely to use it than Java....
« Last Edit: 09 March 2014, 18:50:30 by Teawater » Logged

You won't find it in the guilts of yesterday.
You won't find it in the fears of tomorrow.
You'll find it in today, right now. The miracle is in the moment.
"Click here, you know you want to!"
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
charleysdrpepper@hotmail.com
Majora
Venus Clan

Regular Member
*

Coins: 10
[increase]
Send Money
Offline Offline

Posts: 90

Respect: +40
« Reply #8 on: 09 March 2014, 18:46:40 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

A prime example of Java-usage, glad you know of that RuneScape website.  Visit any page on it, even the most menial pages run it.  Can barely get to a product description without the computer locking up.  Accessed pages running it on standard computers and more capable computers as well, it's the same result every time, load times all over the place, improperly-loaded webpages, strange crashes with no causes mentioned, outdated Java messages once every few months, it's unpleasant, really.

Really don't all that much about HTML5 (or coding in general, going by observation on this one) other than the things that run it work like a charm.  Not a fan of the Chrome exclusiveness but still, could be much worse.

Could simply expand the existing editor if you'd prefer, seems like you've known what you're doing with it recently.  Appears to run very well as it is
Logged
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Teawater
Mercury Clan

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 100
[increase]
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Giving you the juicer. *Hands out teawater.*
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 1464

Respect: +117
« Reply #9 on: 09 March 2014, 19:25:44 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

Actually, I think RuneScape hasn't made the transition to HTML5 official yet... It still seems to be in Beta. http://www.runescape.com/beta/html5

@Java locking up?: Slowness is sad... I would ask for your computer specs so I can compare, but... (Things like operating system, CPU speed, internet speed, etc.)

You mean the existing editor as in my current Java program? Well, there are no animations or music, so...
« Last Edit: 09 March 2014, 19:31:05 by Teawater » Logged

You won't find it in the guilts of yesterday.
You won't find it in the fears of tomorrow.
You'll find it in today, right now. The miracle is in the moment.
"Click here, you know you want to!"
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
charleysdrpepper@hotmail.com
Misery
Bad Luck

Great Member
***

Coins: 25
[increase]
Send Money
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Clan Position: Mercury Hack Leader
Posts: 623

Respect: +74
« Reply #10 on: 09 March 2014, 20:06:05 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

Don't forget that Atrius has a whole set of GS images accessible via a BB code, and a few smileys as well. I don't see how reusing graphics and music would hurt compared to distributing the ROM, in this case. (As long as we're not making a profit, anyway.) And there are many websites that use images and have a copyright notice labeled as fair-use...
Technically it's not allowed, though I guess ultimately it comes down to whether the copyright holders decides to take any action... which I strongly doubt they would do against a non-profit game. Especially considering the Golden Sun games are out of production and the series is essentially discontinued. It's just like how they don't go after sites with sprite rips or even some ROM sharing sites, it's just not worth the effort.
Logged
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Teawater
Mercury Clan

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 100
[increase]
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Giving you the juicer. *Hands out teawater.*
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 1464

Respect: +117
« Reply #11 on: 09 March 2014, 20:22:05 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

Yeah, it's unlikely they'd come after you for using their sprites and music.. especially when their product is aimed at young children... It'd be practically ruining their fun, sort of... - And who knows what that'd mean to their reputation if they did, in fact, tell children to not use their images for creativity.

Even though I agree with having the ability to claim your own copyrights... What's the point?  (Aside from some money matters/surprises/etc..)... That's almost like making a game for the community, and not letting anyone tell the rest of the community via creative advertising... images are worth a thousand words.

As for ROM-sharing sites? I'm not sure how exactly they get away with that... Are they non-US companies?

---
One of my theories:  I figure the money you earned honestly, is the money made through donations... so if a product is really wanted, check your donations. (It's still not a perfect statistic, but it at least shows what people may be willing to spare in money for such a product, rather than having a ton of first-time buyers who, in the end, don't care for the product.  ...and end up wanting some sort of refund they can't get back.)
« Last Edit: 09 March 2014, 20:51:27 by Teawater » Logged

You won't find it in the guilts of yesterday.
You won't find it in the fears of tomorrow.
You'll find it in today, right now. The miracle is in the moment.
"Click here, you know you want to!"
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
charleysdrpepper@hotmail.com
Thunder-squall
Mercury Clan

Great Member
*

Coins: 1
[increase]
Send Money
Offline Offline

Posts: 538

Respect: +3
« Reply #12 on: 10 March 2014, 05:55:05 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

These are some blog posts I think you should check out, just so you get a more fair sense of what RPG Maker can do.  I'm not sure what version these refer to, but even I've freely used the program, back in the day.

RPG Maker Games you should try
Part one
Part two
Logged
View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Luna_blade
One of the makers of a GS prologue fanfic
Luna Clan

Regular Member
*

Coins: 2
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Unable to even keep up with all the posts
Posts: 203

Respect: +3
« Reply #13 on: 22 March 2014, 07:40:54 »
0



@Luna_blade:
Eclipse Origins was created in VB6..., and I feel I have enough knowledge on VB.NET, to code graphics... (You just code in a Bitmap object and link it to an array. While also staying away from SetPixel, since it's extremely slow.) Also, with VB.NET, in Paint events, there are also features for drawing different shapes and lines as well... (e.Graphics) ; Don't be tricked and think the limitations of languages are more limited than they actually are, if you know what I mean. (I mean, it's usually worth doing your research to make sure.)


VisualBoyAdvance = C, C++ (From wikipedia)
DeSmuME = C++
RuneScape/plenty of other applet games = Java (Edit: Although, I believe RuneScape was switching to HTML5 at one point... not sure of the status on that.)

Wow, I'm finally responding. I didn't have the finest clue that you could actually do that with VB. It sure is worth to do your research.

I was rambling about these game makers earlier, but now I have done my research:
BYOND and NetGore (NetGore uses C#) are both Multiplayer RPGmakers, but we could possible use them if anyone has ever used these programs.
So any of you out there used this?

77.170.230.226

Agillity/Speed in most RPG games is better then Attack/Force/power.
Spoiler for Hiden:
That is only when Defence is a linear division fuction. Example: When you strike with two daggers  (one does 120 damage the other 100) and the def makes every damage divide by 50 it does not differ from when you strike with one big sword (dealing 220 damage). When the defence is linear substraction, you want the highest damage output as possible, to maintain a low percentage of damage loss to defence.
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
Teawater
Mercury Clan

Veteran Member
*

Coins: 100
[increase]
Send Money
Online Online

I am: Giving you the juicer. *Hands out teawater.*
Clan Position: Head Gallant
Posts: 1464

Respect: +117
« Reply #14 on: 22 March 2014, 11:59:30 »
0 Vote Down Vote Up

BYOND = Kioll was doing a project in that, I believe... I'm not familiar with the workings of BYOND, and the IDE (Program that you make the game in.) doesn't seem all that impressive...? (I think.)
NetGore = Maybe... But I experienced some flickering with the graphics when I tested that once...Since you don't have to worry about licensing, it might be considered as a place to start. (I will need to play around with it for a bit and get familiar with how the coding works. (C# and maybe even the Events System if that's what they use.))
Logged

You won't find it in the guilts of yesterday.
You won't find it in the fears of tomorrow.
You'll find it in today, right now. The miracle is in the moment.
"Click here, you know you want to!"
View Profile Email Personal Message (Online)
charleysdrpepper@hotmail.com
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Mark unread  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Cbox
Today at 05:46:13
Wolf: Are custom badges still being accepted?
Today at 05:23:27
Teawater: And then, you should say "Thanks in advance!" :)
Today at 05:09:51
Saturos: I must go...I will try to return and then I can contune job.
Today at 05:04:55
Saturos: Pleeeeeeeaaaaaassssseeeee. Sorry for demand.
Today at 05:02:52
Overlord Kain: Wooooooow how demanding.  Not even a please.
Today at 04:53:12
Saturos: Kain: move this topic http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?topic=2404.msg41893#new to story board.
Today at 04:49:15
Salanewt: Moving existing topics is an admin/mod ability, unfortunately.
Today at 04:45:42
Saturos: How to move topics?
Today at 04:41:18
Overlord Kain: Yes.
Today at 04:40:25
Saturos: So that empty general hacking thing is for us?
Today at 04:31:33
Overlord Kain: First off, rules do get broken from time to time.  You're just hardly ever around (more so when it happens).  Second, lol.  Oh wait, you're serious.  Let me laugh even harder.  LMAO  And that's all I have to say about that.
Today at 04:16:39
Takumi: It's not like I want the job to the point of "OMG PLEASE LET ME BE MOD", I just thought I would nominate myself since I consider my skills at running forums to be adequate. It's not a big deal. I just want to have something to do in my spare time and help GSHC at the same time.
Today at 04:14:39
Takumi: So basically what I usually do. Except that nobody around here breaks rules .-.
Today at 03:21:48
Teawater: You would have been better off just asking what his plans were for staff, and possibly reporting rule-breaking enough to be noticed.
Today at 03:16:16
Takumi: Doesn't chuff me any. If that's how you feel, that's perfectly fine with me.
Today at 03:14:52
Overlord Kain: The fastest way to not be made a moderator is to ask to be made a moderator.  Rule #1 of administration, if someone is too naive to be aware of that, then s/he needs to be nowhere near such a position.
Today at 03:10:53
Takumi: Oh, and Kain, if you're looking for a new Global Mod, I've got enough free time on my hands. If not, oh well.
Today at 03:07:13
Overlord Kain: lol
Today at 03:04:24
Takumi: I'm epic with MyBB, but SMF isn't quite my thing. I haven't messed with it enough.
Today at 03:04:00
ScarletFlames: AUUUGH! *accidentally airdodges in the wrong direction*


Affiliates
Temple of Kraden Golden Sunrise
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.088 seconds with 25 queries.